“You’re Not Alone” Interview Series: Gender Identity with Lesli Hudson-Reynolds

Are you or someone you know struggling with gender identity?  Do you feel marginalized, misunderstood, ignored, or judged?  This episode may help you find your way.

lesli@postureshift.com

Feb is BOGO for digital seminars ALSO use “Phoenix20” for 20% off Guiding Families expanded and essentials editions!

Check out this episode!

Transcript:

[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: It’ll start to say like the percentage of uploaded
[dana_skaggs]: Got it okay?
[dana_skaggs]: All right,
[dana_skaggs]: welcome to Phoenix in flame. I’m Dana and this is my podcast on pushing through
[dana_skaggs]: and transforming, even when you feel like a pile of ash.
[dana_skaggs]: I’m telling you, I have really thoroughly enjoyed getting to meet and talk to
[dana_skaggs]: so many wonderful people as I’ve started doing this interview series. You’re
[dana_skaggs]: not alone
[dana_skaggs]: and I have had the privilege of meeting some one. Her name, their name
[dana_skaggs]: Apologze, We will
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you.
[dana_skaggs]: talk about them just a minute. Um, kind of glad I did that. Actually, uh, their
[dana_skaggs]: name is Leslie and we have a mutual friend. that kind of introduced us and I
[dana_skaggs]: was really interested in Leslie’s story, and uh, their experience and that type
[dana_skaggs]: of thing Now. Leslie currently serves as Donor relations and gender identity
[dana_skaggs]: ministry director for posture shift.

[dana_skaggs]: Now the pronouns we will be using which I messed up on earlier will be they,
[dana_skaggs]: and them,
[dana_skaggs]: Leslie mentor’s youth, their parents and adults seeking God’s will in their
[dana_skaggs]: gender identity and are developing a resource designed to thoughtfully engage
[dana_skaggs]: church leadership in the gender conversation.
[dana_skaggs]: Leslie is currently pursuing her masters of divinity.
[dana_skaggs]: Leslie. welcome to Phoenix in flame.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me
[dana_skaggs]: I’m so glad you’re taking your time, and for my listeners out there, Leslie was
[dana_skaggs]: so. Oh, my gosh, she was so commodating this morning. because for those who
[dana_skaggs]: have listened to my potcast for a while, you all know that technology. he is
[dana_skaggs]: not my wheelh. it’s not my strength, but I’m still trying to learn more and do
[dana_skaggs]: more and be better and that type of thing. Well
[dana_skaggs]: this morning Leslie was so accommodating with me and my was like a dumpster
[dana_skaggs]: fire. for Ah, but she, they were so
[dana_skaggs]: patient and kind and thoughtful. Lesly, thank you so so much for
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that a problem.
[dana_skaggs]: hanging in there with me and not saying. Forget this. I’m out of here.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: It’s all about grace.
[dana_skaggs]: Well if you wouldn’t mind, just sort of share with us a little bit
[dana_skaggs]: about about your story. You can start wherever you want and we’ll just kind of
[dana_skaggs]: go back and forth and and just kind of inform the listeners of what your
[dana_skaggs]: experience has been
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Sure, so let’s start out with the pronoun thing because I, that that
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: tends to be something that throws people off. Um. so let’s just dive
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: in really quickly with that Um. I. I do identify as non binary, Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: And there’s there’s a specific reason for that. It’s not some trendy
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: fad thing. Um, From my earliest memories, I’m in my mid mid, well
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: late forties. Now I guess I transition from mid forties to late
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: forties, Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and from the time I was four years old, I was telling people I’m a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: boy. so um, I was born uh natle female, um, but identified as a boy.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: And you know, back in the seventies and eighties, that wasn’t a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: thing. You know that that just wasn’t a thing at all. Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: So what? We will? go a little bit more into my story with that, but
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I came back to Chr. I left the church and came back to Christ and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: we’ll go into kind of the What surrounded that a little bit. But um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: when I came back I was identifying as male. Um, and I don’t feel like
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that’s what God has called me, too. Um, I feel like God has called me
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: to stay the way I, the way I was born. Um, I would. I want to say
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that that is specifically rightf like I gud is called me to do. That
[dana_skaggs]: to say that a specifically rightf I guy is called me to do. That is not um. A
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: is not um, a prescriptive answer for every person who has gender is
[dana_skaggs]: prescriptive answer for every person who has gender is for you, Um. but that’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: for you, Um. but that’s what God has called me to do. But when I hear
[dana_skaggs]: what God has called me to do, but when I hear she and her pronounces um. it is
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: she and her pronouns, um, it is incredibly painful for me. It
[dana_skaggs]: incredibly painful for me. It triggers my dysfororyia and causes suicidality
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: triggers my dysphoria and causes suicidality, and me to self harm. So
[dana_skaggs]: and need to self harm. So using they, then pronouns is me doing
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: using they then pronounces is me doing
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: is me following Christ to the best of my ability in submitting my
[dana_skaggs]: is me following Christ to the best of my ability in submitting my gender
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: gender identity to God in a way that keeps me safe,
[dana_skaggs]: identity to God in a way that keeps me safe.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, but also is keeping me from transitioning
[dana_skaggs]: Um, but also is keeping me from
[dana_skaggs]: transitioning Well, Um, so that’s just to kind of throw that out there, ’cause
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: so. Um. So that’s just to kind of throw that out there. Because I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: know there a lot of times when people here pronounce it are different
[dana_skaggs]: I know a lot of times when people here pronounceed it or different They. They
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: They. they just want to shut down and say how that person you know,
[dana_skaggs]: just want to shut down and say all that person you know, they’re not faing
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: they’re not followlling Christ. They don’t understand Jesus and trust
[dana_skaggs]: Christ. They don’t understand Jesus and trust me when I say that this is a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: me when I say that this is a decades long struggle to get to where I
[dana_skaggs]: decades long struggle to get to where I am with God. Um. and that I have
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: am with God. Um. and that I have complete peace that God is Is is
[dana_skaggs]: complete peace that God is Is is with me, and this, Um. a little bit of my back
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: with me in this, Um. a little bit of my back story. As I said, I grew
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: up. Um. you know in the seventies and eighties, Um, identifying as as
[dana_skaggs]: storyry, As I said, I grew up. Um, you know in the seventies and eighties, Um,
[dana_skaggs]: identifying as as a boy. Um. That wasn’t something you know that you could do
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: a boy. Um. That wasn’t something you know that you could do Back
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: then. I was a Southern Baptist in Houston, Texas, so it wasn’t you
[dana_skaggs]: Back then. I was a Southern baptist in Houston, Texas, so it wasn’t you know,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: know, necessarily, the most um, liberal of places or or free pre
[dana_skaggs]: necessarily the most um, liberal of places or free free places, and here know
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: places, And you know that was also right when you know the Aids
[dana_skaggs]: that was also right when you know the Aids epidemic was going around, and Um. I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: epidemic was going around, and Um. I also uh, figured out when
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: puberty hit that I was attracted to women. Um, or at that point
[dana_skaggs]: also uh, figured out when she were to hit that I was attracted to women. Um, or
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: girls, Um. My first crush at the age of four was Linnder Carter, As
[dana_skaggs]: at that point girls, Um. My first crush at the age of four was Linder Carter,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Wonder Woman, I just knew that I was going to marry Lender Carter. We
[dana_skaggs]: As Wonder Woman. I just knew that I was going to marry Lender Carter. We were
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: were going to have superpower children and I was going to be the
[dana_skaggs]: going to have superpowed children and I was going to be the daddy. You know, I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: daddy. You know, I was only four years old. You don’t know what
[dana_skaggs]: was four years old. You don’t know what daddy, you know. like the biological
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Daddy, you know, like the biological process of that, but I just knew
[dana_skaggs]: process of that, but I just knew I was going to be the father. Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I was going to be the father. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and so um
[dana_skaggs]: and so um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: y, it is closely following. That
[dana_skaggs]: it’ closely following that was Aaron Gray for Bub Rogers, say um. It was
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: was Aaron Gray from Buck Rogers, you know. I, um. Had, I was
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: obviously a latch. He let K, kid, you know of the seventies and
[dana_skaggs]: obviously a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: eighties, Um, very genex. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: so y, you know, I kind of
[dana_skaggs]: so
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: settled into just being a tomboy, as as a young as a young person.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: And as I said when I hit puberty, Um, just four. You really su set
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: in, Um, And you know a lot of people ask. you know what? what is this
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: for you? What does that feel like? And that’s going to feel like
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: something different for for every person? Um,
[dana_skaggs]: person
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: for me, it feels like an extreme anxiety. Um, that I can’t get away
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: from something that I don’t identify with. I look at my body, And and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that’s not how I see myself. Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: it.
[dana_skaggs]: Ums. Stor windows be
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: it’s like I avoid mirrors. Um. I avoid walking past uh store windows.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Uh, Because the person that I see in that reflection is not how I see
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: myself and it’s incredibly painful.
[dana_skaggs]: inriblyinful
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, So with puberty that really set in a, a secondary sex
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: characteristic started to really develop. I mean, it’s something that
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: has O, had always been there, but it got really bad at that point.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um,
[dana_skaggs]: point
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: but there weren’t words for it back then, so I had no way of of
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: describing that to anybody. So it was you know Leslie was just moody
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: or Leslie was depressed. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: depressed
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and I certainly wasn’t going to tell anybody that I was gay at that
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: point. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: at that point.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know that it just my F. You know my friends talked about, you
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: know, using. uh, you know, fagot this, and like all these horrible
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: words that you know, you would never want to say to somebody and I, I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: just I knew that you know I would be beat up and and stuff like that,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: which did eventually happen when you know when. I.
[dana_skaggs]: Well and yeah, like you’ say in the seventies it, it was like there was not
[dana_skaggs]: language and there was not a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Yeah,
[dana_skaggs]: positive response to that at all. Yeah, soies
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Yeah, so for me that coming of age would have probably been mid to
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: late eighties. Um, but yeah, so so certainly there there. There
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: wasn’t just any. Um, you know it’s we’ve We’ve reclaimed the word
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: ▁queer. at this point, Um, as a community, but you know ▁queer. Was
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know, you know very much a slur back then, Um, and so you know,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I, in high school I was pushed downstairs. I was you know. I. I was
[dana_skaggs]: I, in high school I was pushed downstairs. I was y. you know I. I was just
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: just teased relentlessly. Um. my pastor was doing a sermon series on.
[dana_skaggs]: teased relentlessly. Um, my pastor was doing a sermon series on. On What what
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: On what what we would say? ▁l G is ▁l g, B, T, Uh. Topics Now, back
[dana_skaggs]: we would say? ▁l G is ▁l g, B, T, uh. Topics now, back then it was
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: then it was homosexuality, Um, which is a word that I hate using. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: homosexuality, Um, which is a word that I hate using. Um. but you know I went
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: but you know I went to my passor and I said you. I think that’s me,
[dana_skaggs]: to my passor. I said Yeah, I think that’s me, but I don’t want it to be. I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: but I don’t want it to be. I’d accepted Christ at the age of eight.
[dana_skaggs]: accepted Christ at the age of eight. All my memories were wrapped up in the
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: All of my memories were wrapped up in the church. I was very active
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: in my youth group. I was a leader in my youth group, Um,
[dana_skaggs]: church. I was very active in my youth group. I was a leader in my youth group,
[dana_skaggs]: Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and I was very firmly told that I was no longer welcome in that
[dana_skaggs]: and I was very firmly told that I was no longer welcome in that church.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: church.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, and so you know, had
[dana_skaggs]: Um, and so you know,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: was told that I was an abomination. Think God could never love me,
[dana_skaggs]: had it was told that I was an abomination. The God did never love me. Um, and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, and as anyone you know, we were designed to be in community, So
[dana_skaggs]: as anyone, you know what were designed to be in community, so I, I left the
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I, I left the church community, Um. I. I did get into the Baptist
[dana_skaggs]: church community. Um. I. I did get into the Baptist Su Union for a little while
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: student union for a little while in college to try and reconnect,
[dana_skaggs]: in college to try and reconnect, because I never stopped loving God. I just was
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: because I never stopped loving God. I just was incredibly fearful and
[dana_skaggs]: incredibly fearful and antagonistic towards God’s people at that point because
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: antagonistic towards God’s people at that point because I had been so
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: hurt. Um. But obviously, you Baptist student union in East Texas
[dana_skaggs]: I had been so hurt. Um, but obviously a Baptist student union in East Texas
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: didn’t work out very well for me either. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: didn’t work out very well for me either. Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: so I, I got into theatre. I was a stage manager for Uh, Broadway
[dana_skaggs]: so I, I got into theatre. I was a stage manager for Uh. Broadway tours, A both
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: tours in both the U S. and Europe, and doing that I met Uh, the woman
[dana_skaggs]: the U S. and Europe, and doing that I met Uh, the woman who had become my wife.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: who had become my wife. Um, you know I. I. I found a community where
[dana_skaggs]: Um, you know I. I. I found community where I could find it because Y, the
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I could find it because Y, the church had had told me know in certain
[dana_skaggs]: church had had only me, No, on certain terms that they would not be my
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: terms that they would not be my community anymore. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: community anymore. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: as Sue and I were married for four years, Uh, she had a
[dana_skaggs]: as Soe and I were married for four years, Uh, she had a degeneritative
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: degeneritative neurological disease and
[dana_skaggs]: neurological disease and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um. part of
[dana_skaggs]: Um, part of that disease was that, Uh that she had all kinds of seizures And
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that disease was that, Uh that she had all kinds of seizures And one
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: of those one of the seizures were what’s called my acloonus, which is
[dana_skaggs]: one of those one of the seizures were what’s called my acloonus, which is where
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: where your hands shake. If she hadd gone outside one day to uh to
[dana_skaggs]: your hands shake. If she’d gone outside one day to uh to light her cigarette,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: light her cigarette, And we don’t know exactly what happened. All I
[dana_skaggs]: and we don’t know exactly what happened. All I know is that I heard her
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: know is that I heard her screaming ran out and she was engulfed in
[dana_skaggs]: screaming ran out and she was engulfed in flames. Uh, and so, Uh, she passed
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: flames. Um. and so uh, she passed away. Um, she was thirty five. I
[dana_skaggs]: away. Um, she was thirty five. I was thirty six at the time and butles we’re
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: was thirty six at the time and I was we were living in Massachusetts.
[dana_skaggs]: living in Massachusetts. Um, I was. we had been. She’ been lifelighted to, Um
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, I was we’d been. She’d been lifelighted to, Um to Mass general in
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Boston and I called this church. Um. there was down the street from
[dana_skaggs]: to Mass general in Boston and I called this church. Um. there was down the
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: our house and I said we will you do the funeral like I, I, at thirty
[dana_skaggs]: street from our house and I said, Will you do the funeral like I? I, at thirty
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: five. I mean thirty six years old. You don’t know. you know how to
[dana_skaggs]: five. I mean thirty six years old. You don’t know. you know how to plan the few
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: plan the funeral of your spouse. That’s not something. you know, the
[dana_skaggs]: old your spouse? That’s exactly right.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: two. Even so, Um, you know this pastor answer. I was terrified. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: So, um, you know this pastor answer? I was terrified. Um, to even talk to him
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: to even talk to him and I was like, You know. obviously we’re we’re
[dana_skaggs]: and I was like, You know. Obviously we’re we lesbians. We will you do this And
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: lesbians. We will you do this And he said a phrase that absolutely
[dana_skaggs]: he said a phrase that absolutely changed my life. he said, W. Does, we would be
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: changed my life. he said W. Leslie. We would be honored, too. He
[dana_skaggs]: honored, too. He didn’t stop and say, You know, what are my elders going to
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: didn’t stop and say, You know, what are my elders going to think?
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: What are my top donors? Go to think, Um, when he did the service, he
[dana_skaggs]: think? What are my top donors? Go to think, Um, when he did the service, he he
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: he encouraged people to come around me as a widow, and that whole
[dana_skaggs]: encouraged people to come around me as a widow and that whole church community
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: church community just loved me as someone who had been through
[dana_skaggs]: just loved me as someone who had been through something horrific. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: something horrific. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and I went from hating Christians to thinking. Okay, Maybe I can try
[dana_skaggs]: and I went from hating Christians to thinking. Okay, Maybe I could try this
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: this out, Um, and got involved Um in the worship aspect of it, and
[dana_skaggs]: out, Um, and got involved Um in the worship aspect of it, and was doing sound
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: was doing sound and stuff like that since I hadd done Tch Nicle
[dana_skaggs]: and stuff like that as I donet up theer, um, and and really plugged in Uh, with
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: theatre, Um, and and really plugged in Uh with that church there, Um,
[dana_skaggs]: that church there, Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and after two years was able to completely surrender my gender
[dana_skaggs]: and after two years was able to completely surrender my general identity and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: identity and myexuality to Christ. Um, and now it you know there’s
[dana_skaggs]: myexuality to Christ. Um, and now it you know there’s there has’ been a magic
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: there hasn’t been a magic wand where it’s like all of a sudden, I’m
[dana_skaggs]: wand where it’s like all of a sudden, I’m straight. I like guys. Um, you know
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: straight. I like guys. Um, you know, I don’t know that that’s ever
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: going to happen, Um, but I am at peace with Uh, with celibacy at this
[dana_skaggs]: I, I don’t know that that’s ever going to happen, Um, but I am at peace with
[dana_skaggs]: Uh, with celibacy. At this point, Um, that’s why I feel like God has called me
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: point, Um. that’s what I feel like God has called me too. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: too, Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and I’m as
[dana_skaggs]: and I, as you know, as you said, I, I, an administry I work with with ▁l, g, B,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know, as you said I, I am an a ministry I work with with ▁lgb. T,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: uh, teens, parents, Um, you know we, we have very strict rules from
[dana_skaggs]: T, uh, teens, parents, Um, you know, but we have very strict rules from our
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: our board about about you know being able to work with with underage
[dana_skaggs]: board about about you know being able to work with with underage people. So
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: people, so it’s um. uh. You know. typically they parents are involved
[dana_skaggs]: it’s uh, uh,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: in that Um. but we also train church leaders Top down, Um
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: on on how to better engage people within their church.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, We’re not teaching people to go out to gay baars and proslitize
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: or saying no. there are ▁l g, B, T. people within your church. Here
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: is how you can hold to a traditional sexual ethic and still love
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: people within your congregation. And so we’ve trained about sixty
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: thousand church leaders at this point.
[dana_skaggs]: who was kind of wondering
[dana_skaggs]: you were talking about
[dana_skaggs]: with church,
[dana_skaggs]: helping them understand the needs of the ▁l.
[dana_skaggs]: Iming.
[dana_skaggs]: What are the biggest obstacles
[dana_skaggs]: you into
[dana_skaggs]: to pursue that endeavor?
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I think that the the biggest thing that I’ve noticed is just fear
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: there are so many pastors out there who want to start leading their
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: church in the right direction, Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: or what I would consider the right direction. Um. but they’re afraid
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: of what their congregations will do. Are they’re afraid that their
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: congregations aren’t ready to hear it? Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: There is you know in certain parts of the country. Um, you know they.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I had a pastor say that when they first started having this
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: conversation their elderbard. there are people who didn’t even know
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: what ▁l g b T meant with the With those you know with the acronym
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: meant. Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: So you know before a pastor is going to stand up from a pull pit and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: say something, they have to make sure that their staff and their
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: elder board are behind them and are able to handle the questions that
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: are going to come after that. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: Right?
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: And so it’s it’s It’s a very slow ship to turn. Um. I, I think that’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: been the biggest hindrance.
[dana_skaggs]: well, I’m very thankful for your effort
[dana_skaggs]: representing a a growing group of people that feel more and more
[dana_skaggs]: like you. They’re feeling more more comfortable coming forth and telling their
[dana_skaggs]: story and being authentic and being honest and realizing that there are loving
[dana_skaggs]: people in churches that they don’t have to feel like. Oh, I can’t. I can’t go
[dana_skaggs]: to church. I can’t have a church
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm.
[dana_skaggs]: family because of this thing about
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: right,
[dana_skaggs]: myself,
[dana_skaggs]: and you said something else when you very first were explaining your story. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: the you said that you first knew when you were about
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: yeah,
[dana_skaggs]: four,
[dana_skaggs]: And I think that’s important to to bring up, too, because once in a while I I
[dana_skaggs]: find myself hearing conversations going on about. You know, was someone born
[dana_skaggs]: this way? Did it happen as a result of trauma? And because my field being
[dana_skaggs]: psychotherapy, I end up talking to people that have gone through trauma and
[dana_skaggs]: that type of thing. So sometimes in those conversations those things come up.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm.
[dana_skaggs]: It’s like Okay. Well, is this something that is just in the person, or is it a
[dana_skaggs]: response to something? And do you think those are are Ne, Are like two
[dana_skaggs]: different
[dana_skaggs]: groups of individuals that some people might do that in response to a trauma or
[dana_skaggs]: not You know. Have the gender dis for youa. what are your thoughts on that?
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I’m sure there are people that do have it as as a result of trauma, I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: will say that myself, and we, as a ministry really try not to get
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: into causation. Um, We find we have found that it’s more of a divide
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: than a help.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: You know. If if
[dana_skaggs]: Okay,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: somebody is saying to me, I’ve never had trauma, I’ve never had this.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: There are a few questions that I will ask. Um. But, but typically
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: speaking, I’m going to take somebody’s word until they’re ready. you
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: know to divulge. I can tell you, at four years old, I had not had any
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: drama that I’m aware. unless it’s something that’s like ridiculously
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: suppressed. Um, and most of the people that I know who have gendered
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: foria. That is the case.
[dana_skaggs]: Yeah, that has been my experience as well.
[dana_skaggs]: Hm,
[dana_skaggs]: so
[dana_skaggs]: moving forward in your life, what do you see as? Uh, some potential obstacles,
[dana_skaggs]: Areas of strength that you see as you pursue your masters of divinity, and that
[dana_skaggs]: type of thing.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, Well, some obstacles,
[dana_skaggs]: Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know, I mean it’s I. I think this is true of anyone who is
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: single. I. I, you know, it’s not just particularly in my story, but
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: um, you know there’s the reality that’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I. I’m an only child. I’m not super close to the rest of my family,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: so there’s going to come a time when my mother passes away that I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: have no family.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, And so you know, when I say that I need the church to be my
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: family. it’s not some cute all the family of God. You know, you know,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: singing song kind of thing. it’s like No, I need people who are going
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: to show up in my life. Um, and I, I think a lot of people who don’t
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: have spouses would would say that that it’s you know. this isn’t
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: unique to my journey. Um. I’m very fortunate. Uh, in the church that
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I attend that that I have people that are showing up like that, Uh in
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: my life and have committed to be there. You know, once my mom is
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: gone, Um, Some of the
[dana_skaggs]: Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: advantages you know. it’s um. if somebody calls me and needs help
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: with something, Um, I don’t have to, you know, worry about. Well, are
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I do? I to have to you know, get my kids taken care of, or you know
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I, is there something I’m supposed to be doing with my spouse? Um, if
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I need if I want to pick up and go serve. I pick up and I go serve.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: You know, there’s there’s nothing in the way of that and there’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: there’s absolutely a freedom in that. Um, it was you know I share
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: with you that I was recording another podcast. Uh, yesterday, and uh,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: one of the things that we were talking about. Um, is that when you
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: are um celebate for any reason, Um, that’s something that you have to
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: daately lay down at God’s feet. It’s it’s an anchor chain for me. Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and so it’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I. I’m kind of thankful for it in a way, Um, because I know that I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: can’t go too long without without figuratively, if not literally
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: being on my knees before the cross, and and giving up, you know, and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and re surrendering this. Um, you know because it’s there’s and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: there’s also a different journey for people who have who have been in
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: relationship and have decided. this is how I’m going to live the rest
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: of my life and people who younger people said No. this is just how
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I’m going to live my life. Um, they have a particular journey. My
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: journey is that I know what I’m missing out on. Um, you know, I know
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: what it’s like to have that person to make all the decisions with.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: And um, you know it’s it’s It’s tough not having that person to make
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: life decisions with that. every life decision you make is is made on
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: your own. and um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: so yeah, but but there is absolutely freedom and joy outside of that.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: That’s you know. that I can go and do whatever you know. I’m I’m not
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: behold into somebody.
[dana_skaggs]: you know, I really like the way you’re explaining all of this and you, you seem
[dana_skaggs]: to really respect each individual person’s journey,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you have to.
[dana_skaggs]: which is something that I re repeat a lot on my podcast is, And that’s one of
[dana_skaggs]: the reasons why I wanted to do. You’re not alone, interview series, and and
[dana_skaggs]: really reach out to people who have experienced. You know different levels of
[dana_skaggs]: diversity and things in their life, so that people have a chance to hear and
[dana_skaggs]: understand what it’s like to walk in different people’s shoes. So we, that
[dana_skaggs]: we’re less judgmental, We less
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm.
[dana_skaggs]: critical where we. we allow someone else to be in their lane. We allow someone
[dana_skaggs]: else to walk their path and honor them walking their path, and and and and not
[dana_skaggs]: be critical and and judgmental in
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Yeah,
[dana_skaggs]: that way.
[dana_skaggs]: Do you feel like that there’s people you’ve run into Um, even in the the ▁l g B
[dana_skaggs]: T community that are Um. critical, or you know, don’t really respond
[dana_skaggs]: particularly positively to your choice of celibacy.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: absolutely, um. it’s you know I, I’m a heretic to um, ▁ter, um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Fundamental Christians, and I am a trader to
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know, to what’s considered a sit, A ▁l G, B. T person, Um, it’s a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: very, Um, kind of fine line of people that I can relate to within the
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: ▁l Gb. C community, Um, especially because I was such an activist
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: prior to coming coming back to Christ. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: be I, I’ve been told that I’m dishonoring my wife’s memory, that I’m
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: a traitor to her memory. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: there are entire
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: their entire, uh, like blogs about from both uh, conservatives and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: liberals about uh, how horrible I am. Like naming me specifically,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Uh, just because uh, there’s a a fairly well known theologian who
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: uses my story and has used it in in three of his books.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: And so it might my stories out there. My name is out there. Um. And
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: so there’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: There’s no lack of uh. criticism of me. Unfortunately,
[dana_skaggs]: Oh, and that, just that’s so frustrating. But you know what I’m I’m kind of
[dana_skaggs]: glad you brought that up. Because really, for any of us, if we’re going to be
[dana_skaggs]: walking a path of authenticity, if we are going to tell our story, there are
[dana_skaggs]: going to be people out there that don’t like it, and that that respond in a
[dana_skaggs]: very vitrialic negative way. And what are we going to do? Are we going to say
[dana_skaggs]: Okay, Because there are are going to be people out there that are going to
[dana_skaggs]: respond that way. Am I not going to share my story? Am I just going to stay
[dana_skaggs]: silent because I don’t want someone to respond to me in a hateful way, or am I
[dana_skaggs]: going to be true to myself? Am I going to be authentic? Am I going to tell my
[dana_skaggs]: story,
[dana_skaggs]: And
[dana_skaggs]: as uh, Taylor Swift is known to say, let the
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm,
[dana_skaggs]: haters hate. The haters are going to hate and just be thankful for the people
[dana_skaggs]: that you are reaching that are so glad to hear what you have to say and that
[dana_skaggs]: are maybe walking uh your path. But earlier, maybe they’re
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: yeah,
[dana_skaggs]: younger now and they’re hearing you even now on this podcast and they’re
[dana_skaggs]: hearing you tell your story and thinking, Wow, that’s she was. I’m I’m her.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: yeah,
[dana_skaggs]: I, I’m there. Okay, I’m I’m
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that’s okay.
[dana_skaggs]: sorry about that. I’m I’m still learning.
[dana_skaggs]: So do you see what I’m trying to say? It’s like what are you going to do when
[dana_skaggs]: people are going to? I’m going to hate.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Yeah, yeah. So so a couple of things that, Um, you know, I, I, I’ve
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: when I, when my story kind of went public, And and there are a couple
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: of videos out there and stuff, And like I said these books, Um, when
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that happened, Um, I had to do like a, a very uh, serious. sit down
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: like with God and I,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: And and and I just had to come to the conclusion that Okay, I am
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: doing this for Christ. Christ went to the cross for me. I can handle
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: a blog.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: You know, um,
[dana_skaggs]: Oh, okay,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: y, you know it’s this is all for the sake of the kingdom. You know,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know Paules, that we should be all things for all people that
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: some may come, right, Uh to the gospel. Um. it’ll be wonderful if it
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: said that all may come. But we’re doing this for some. Um. They hated
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Jesus if they’re not, If there aren’t people hating me, I don’t think
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I’m doing it right. Um, I’m not loving radically enough. Um, so yeah
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that. that’s just kind of where I’ve had to land on that.
[dana_skaggs]: I love that point and I guess one of the last things I’ll say, Um, and then you
[dana_skaggs]: know, give you some time if you have any less comments or questions or anything
[dana_skaggs]: like that. It’s
[dana_skaggs]: I really like the idea of family like you
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm.
[dana_skaggs]: were saying earlier, church, family, and that’s one of the things that I’ve
[dana_skaggs]: been kind of pushing for with with my podcast, With my interview series is
[dana_skaggs]: helping us to just reach out
[dana_skaggs]: and and just be family
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm,
[dana_skaggs]: to each other. Stop asking all these questions of what this, and what that, and
[dana_skaggs]: how come you’re not this just allowing each person to be their authentic self
[dana_skaggs]: and be their family, love them, be there for them. And instead of pushing
[dana_skaggs]: someone aside because they’re different,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: yeah, um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know it’s It’s funny like one of the when, when someone when I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: say that or when someone to someone else. I’ve heard someone say
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that. there’s always the people that say. Well, what about truth like
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: That’s all grace. What about the truth in it? Um, you know and it’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I, We. We do need to be family. we’ve um, we’ve lost sight of that. I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: think in our culture we’ve um, we’ve we. We almost idolize the
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: nuclear family. Not almost we do idolize the nuclear family. And so
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know people
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: people like me are are kind of struggling to try and find a way to
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: fit in. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: but um, sorry, I just totally lost my train of thoughts. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: Well, well, you’re getting that that’s okaycause. I have a comment about what
[dana_skaggs]: you just said is about the definition of family, The nuclear family, Because I
[dana_skaggs]: think if if we, if we broaden our understanding, and what does family
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm,
[dana_skaggs]: mean? and I, and kind of a funny way I think of that show friends,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: yeah,
[dana_skaggs]: you know, they, they went to to New York or whatever, And and they, they became
[dana_skaggs]: a family. They, none of them will, too, we biologically
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm,
[dana_skaggs]: related, but the rest of them they were not biologically related, And yet they
[dana_skaggs]: went and they came together and they became a family,
[dana_skaggs]: And I think it’s really a good idea for us to kind of step back and broaden our
[dana_skaggs]: view of what does family mean?
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm,
[dana_skaggs]: And and can’t we like, open our circle. And just if, just ask ourselves if we
[dana_skaggs]: did react to this person or that person as if they were family, how would that
[dana_skaggs]: change how we respond to them
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Yeah, there’s a great book by West Hill. Um
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: calls, Oh not washing, waiting, spiritual friendship, Um, and it’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: about covenant, friendships, Uh with within, Uh in, you know, within
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: the body of Christ, and it’s Um. He has. he’s Um. he’s a professor at
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Oh goness, I know the I should know this, but anyway he’s a Ph. H. D,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: professor, also a minister and he has a family that he has a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: covenant. Reallyl ship
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: with that. like if they move, they’re going to talk about it. like
[dana_skaggs]: as a covenant relationship with that like if they move, they’re going to talk
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: together. Um, and it’s um. It’s It’s just beautiful that they’ve you
[dana_skaggs]: about it like together. Um.
[dana_skaggs]: And it’s um. it. It’s just beautiful that they’ve you know, kind of included
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: know, kind of included him in. And and I have that kind of
[dana_skaggs]: him in. And and I have that kind of relationship here with with. Um, you know
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: relationship here with it with. Um. you know with a couple of
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: families, which is is just incredible. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: with a couple of families, which is is just incredible. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: but it’s I, I will say, like in the church that I was involved in
[dana_skaggs]: but it’s I, I will say, like in the church of I was involved in Massachusetts.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Massachusetts. That wasn’t necessarily the case. There were times
[dana_skaggs]: That wasn’t necessarily the case. There were times when Um. you know I was
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: when Um, you know I was active in the church on Wednesdays and
[dana_skaggs]: active in the church on Wednesdays and Sundays, but there would go. There would
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Sundays, but there would go. There would be days when I like,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: literally wouldn’t speak to anyone. Um, you know, just because there
[dana_skaggs]: be days when I like Littles, wouldn’t speak to anyone. Um, you know, just
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: was you know, I was living in a you know at that point of condo by
[dana_skaggs]: because it was you know I was living in, you know, at that point the condo by
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: myself, Um
[dana_skaggs]: myself, Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that that has not happened here. you know. there’s there’s always
[dana_skaggs]: that that has not happened here. you know. There’s there’s always somebody you
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: somebody you know goofing around texting, joking, um, texting or
[dana_skaggs]: know goofing around texting, joking, um, texting or whatever, Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: whatever, Um
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and I, I, I don’t know how I would, I, how I would be survive. I
[dana_skaggs]: and I, I. I don’t know how I would. I. how I would be sur much. I would go back
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: would go back to surviving and not thriving. I feel like I’m able to
[dana_skaggs]: to surviving and not thriving. I feel like I’m able to thrive now because I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: thrive now because I have that. Um, you know, I think when you’re
[dana_skaggs]: have that. Um, you know, I think when you’re talking about, First of all, I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: talking about, first of all, I hate the words cebacy like there’s no
[dana_skaggs]: hate the words. celibacy, Think there’s no other word to describe it, but I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: other word to describe it. But I hate it. I, I just I just don’t like
[dana_skaggs]: hate it. Ij, I just I just don’t like it. I don’t know why. Um, but you know
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: it. I don’t know why. Um, but you know there’s there are three types
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: of intimacy that I have found. there’s physical, spiritual and
[dana_skaggs]: there’s there are three types of intimacy that I have found there’s physical,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: emotional. I can do without one of those three,
[dana_skaggs]: spiritual and emotional. I can do without one of those three.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: so without messing up, Um. Then when when I say mesing up, it’s like
[dana_skaggs]: So without messing up, Um, then when when they say messing up, it’s like going
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: going in to sent either emotionally spiritually or physically. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: to sent either emotionally spiritually or physically. Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: So if physical is already taken away, I have to have the church be my
[dana_skaggs]: So if physical has already taken away, I have to have the church be my
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: emotional and spiritual, um relationship. Which means that there has
[dana_skaggs]: emotional and spiritual, um. relationship. which means that there has to be
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: to be people that you know that when you think about like how you,
[dana_skaggs]: people that you know that When you think about like how you, you know what you,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know what your what it’s like with your spouse at. there are
[dana_skaggs]: what it iss like with your spouse At. there are times that you’re just
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: times that you’re just completely raw and you make no sense and
[dana_skaggs]: completely raw and you make no sense and you’re just emotional and stupid. Yes,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you’re just emotional and stupid. But they’re your spouse and they
[dana_skaggs]: but they’re your spouse and they know you that well, and they. they let you do
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: know you that well, and they, they let you do that
[dana_skaggs]: that
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: as a single person.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: It’s really hard to find that in a relationship, Um, and so having
[dana_skaggs]: as a single person. It’s really hard to find that in a relationship. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: the church be able to be there and and really step up in that way, Um
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: has has taken me from surviving to thriving.
[dana_skaggs]: that is wonderful and
[dana_skaggs]: one last question for you. Um, If there are
[dana_skaggs]: people out there in Uh, the Phoenix inflame listening audience that are in
[dana_skaggs]: churches and there may be in various positions of authority or church members,
[dana_skaggs]: or whatever the case may be, And they’re listening to you and they’re listening
[dana_skaggs]: to your story
[dana_skaggs]: and they want to be a agent of change.
[dana_skaggs]: They want to do something
[dana_skaggs]: Uh, proactive. They want to do something to help. They want to do something.
[dana_skaggs]: Um. they want to be part of the solution.
[dana_skaggs]: What would you suggest to them? What possible
[dana_skaggs]: words of wisdom? Pieces of advice that you might have for them, as they are out
[dana_skaggs]: there in their various churches, may be surrounded by people that aren’t
[dana_skaggs]: particularly
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm.
[dana_skaggs]: receptive to this message. or you know, Uh, individuals walking that particular
[dana_skaggs]: uh line. So, um, what would you say? What would your suggestions be
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, you know, I would say, go to posture shift dot com. Um, look at
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: our resources. We have. Guiding families is an amazing book. Um. It’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: we’ve had
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: par parent child relationships be completely turned upside down in a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: matter of hours and repaired by by parents. Reading this book, Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: for church leaders, we have all kinds of training that go from one
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: hour to a four hour digital training You can do to a two day digital
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: train to a two day training where we you come out and train uh people
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: in their churches, But we take on this conversation myologically. You
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: know, and if you, if you, we think about when you go on a mission
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: trip, or you know, or when you’re preparing permissions, you look at
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: people’s language, you look at their culture, you look at their
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: history,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: And and that’s what we do. And then once that has been established,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and there’s a common language and a common understanding of Okay,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: when we say this, An ▁l g, B, T person hears this and heres why? So
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: it’s not just saying, change your language, because it’s change our
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: language. And this is why. And and so you have A. They have a much
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: deeper understanding of why. So they? they’re better equipped to go
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: before their congregations, or you know, whatever that may be, We
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: also help uh, create inclusion models and things like that. Um, but
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that’s all part of like our two day posture shift intensive. Um, and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: it’s all all of that’s it, posture shift, dot com and uh, or info
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: aposture shift uhosture shift dot com. You know, requesting a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: proposal or something, we’d be able to help out that way,
[dana_skaggs]: Okay? That is wonderful, and I will put posture shift dot com in my show notes.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Greatful.
[dana_skaggs]: for Uh, when I put the The podcast when I launch it out on Itunes and and other
[dana_skaggs]: all the other destinations that he goes to, But I will put in the show note so
[dana_skaggs]: that people will have that and can easily get to it and and find that
[dana_skaggs]: information,
[dana_skaggs]: Leslie. I appreciate you so much for tolerating my craziness this morning. That
[dana_skaggs]: has to be said again,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: it is not that bad
[dana_skaggs]: and my technical ineptitude, and and your grace and that, and your willingness
[dana_skaggs]: to hang in there, and G. literally she went. They went to another location to
[dana_skaggs]: help me do this interview. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: and I, I’m just I appreciate that so much.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: pleasure
[dana_skaggs]: Um,
[dana_skaggs]: All right, Well,
[dana_skaggs]: if this message has touched
[dana_skaggs]: you in any kind of way if you have related to Leslie’s story.
[dana_skaggs]: If you know of someone who might be walking a journey that sounds similar to
[dana_skaggs]: Lesliy’s, I would
[dana_skaggs]: ask that you would
[dana_skaggs]: post the podcast on your social media platforms, whatever your favorite ones
[dana_skaggs]: are, whether they be Facebook, Instagram, Twitter that you would share Leslie’s
[dana_skaggs]: message so that we can reach people that could possibly benefit from maybe
[dana_skaggs]: going to posture shift, dot com, Uh, or their family members that could do that
[dana_skaggs]: as well to relieve some suffering, and to pull together, Um, and also to grow
[dana_skaggs]: our Phoenix in flamme community, which we reach out to one. Another we learn
[dana_skaggs]: from each other, we accept each other. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: So I, I thank you for joining us today, and I hope the rest of your day goes
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: eight.
[dana_skaggs]: wonderfully. This is Dana on Phoenix in flame.

About The Host

About The Host

Dana Skaggs is called the Queen of Boundaries because of her extraordinary skill at helping her clients understand how the lack of healthy boundaries contributes to their problems. She has been in private practice for over 15 years, specializing in anxiety and adjustment issues as well as trauma work.

About The Host

About The Host

Dana Skaggs is called the Queen of Boundaries because of her extraordinary skill at helping her clients understand how the lack of healthy boundaries contributes to their problems. She has been in private practice for over 15 years, specializing in anxiety and adjustment issues as well as trauma work.

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