“You’re Not Alone” Interview Series: Gender Identity with Lesli Hudson-Reynolds


Are you or someone you know struggling with gender identity?  Do you feel marginalized, misunderstood, ignored, or judged?  This episode may help you find your way.

lesli@postureshift.com

Feb is BOGO for digital seminars ALSO use “Phoenix20” for 20% off Guiding Families expanded and essentials editions!

Check out this episode!

Transcript:

[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: It’ll start to say like the percentage of uploaded
[dana_skaggs]: Got it okay?
[dana_skaggs]: All right,
[dana_skaggs]: welcome to Phoenix in flame. I’m Dana and this is my podcast on pushing through
[dana_skaggs]: and transforming, even when you feel like a pile of ash.
[dana_skaggs]: I’m telling you, I have really thoroughly enjoyed getting to meet and talk to
[dana_skaggs]: so many wonderful people as I’ve started doing this interview series. You’re
[dana_skaggs]: not alone
[dana_skaggs]: and I have had the privilege of meeting some one. Her name, their name
[dana_skaggs]: Apologze, We will
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you.
[dana_skaggs]: talk about them just a minute. Um, kind of glad I did that. Actually, uh, their
[dana_skaggs]: name is Leslie and we have a mutual friend. that kind of introduced us and I
[dana_skaggs]: was really interested in Leslie’s story, and uh, their experience and that type
[dana_skaggs]: of thing Now. Leslie currently serves as Donor relations and gender identity
[dana_skaggs]: ministry director for posture shift.

[dana_skaggs]: Now the pronouns we will be using which I messed up on earlier will be they,
[dana_skaggs]: and them,
[dana_skaggs]: Leslie mentor’s youth, their parents and adults seeking God’s will in their
[dana_skaggs]: gender identity and are developing a resource designed to thoughtfully engage
[dana_skaggs]: church leadership in the gender conversation.
[dana_skaggs]: Leslie is currently pursuing her masters of divinity.
[dana_skaggs]: Leslie. welcome to Phoenix in flame.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Thank you very much. Thanks for having me
[dana_skaggs]: I’m so glad you’re taking your time, and for my listeners out there, Leslie was
[dana_skaggs]: so. Oh, my gosh, she was so commodating this morning. because for those who
[dana_skaggs]: have listened to my potcast for a while, you all know that technology. he is
[dana_skaggs]: not my wheelh. it’s not my strength, but I’m still trying to learn more and do
[dana_skaggs]: more and be better and that type of thing. Well
[dana_skaggs]: this morning Leslie was so accommodating with me and my was like a dumpster
[dana_skaggs]: fire. for Ah, but she, they were so
[dana_skaggs]: patient and kind and thoughtful. Lesly, thank you so so much for
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that a problem.
[dana_skaggs]: hanging in there with me and not saying. Forget this. I’m out of here.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: It’s all about grace.
[dana_skaggs]: Well if you wouldn’t mind, just sort of share with us a little bit
[dana_skaggs]: about about your story. You can start wherever you want and we’ll just kind of
[dana_skaggs]: go back and forth and and just kind of inform the listeners of what your
[dana_skaggs]: experience has been
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Sure, so let’s start out with the pronoun thing because I, that that
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: tends to be something that throws people off. Um. so let’s just dive
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: in really quickly with that Um. I. I do identify as non binary, Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: And there’s there’s a specific reason for that. It’s not some trendy
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: fad thing. Um, From my earliest memories, I’m in my mid mid, well
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: late forties. Now I guess I transition from mid forties to late
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: forties, Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and from the time I was four years old, I was telling people I’m a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: boy. so um, I was born uh natle female, um, but identified as a boy.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: And you know, back in the seventies and eighties, that wasn’t a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: thing. You know that that just wasn’t a thing at all. Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: So what? We will? go a little bit more into my story with that, but
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I came back to Chr. I left the church and came back to Christ and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: we’ll go into kind of the What surrounded that a little bit. But um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: when I came back I was identifying as male. Um, and I don’t feel like
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that’s what God has called me, too. Um, I feel like God has called me
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: to stay the way I, the way I was born. Um, I would. I want to say
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that that is specifically rightf like I gud is called me to do. That
[dana_skaggs]: to say that a specifically rightf I guy is called me to do. That is not um. A
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: is not um, a prescriptive answer for every person who has gender is
[dana_skaggs]: prescriptive answer for every person who has gender is for you, Um. but that’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: for you, Um. but that’s what God has called me to do. But when I hear
[dana_skaggs]: what God has called me to do, but when I hear she and her pronounces um. it is
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: she and her pronouns, um, it is incredibly painful for me. It
[dana_skaggs]: incredibly painful for me. It triggers my dysfororyia and causes suicidality
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: triggers my dysphoria and causes suicidality, and me to self harm. So
[dana_skaggs]: and need to self harm. So using they, then pronouns is me doing
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: using they then pronounces is me doing
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: is me following Christ to the best of my ability in submitting my
[dana_skaggs]: is me following Christ to the best of my ability in submitting my gender
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: gender identity to God in a way that keeps me safe,
[dana_skaggs]: identity to God in a way that keeps me safe.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, but also is keeping me from transitioning
[dana_skaggs]: Um, but also is keeping me from
[dana_skaggs]: transitioning Well, Um, so that’s just to kind of throw that out there, ’cause
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: so. Um. So that’s just to kind of throw that out there. Because I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: know there a lot of times when people here pronounce it are different
[dana_skaggs]: I know a lot of times when people here pronounceed it or different They. They
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: They. they just want to shut down and say how that person you know,
[dana_skaggs]: just want to shut down and say all that person you know, they’re not faing
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: they’re not followlling Christ. They don’t understand Jesus and trust
[dana_skaggs]: Christ. They don’t understand Jesus and trust me when I say that this is a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: me when I say that this is a decades long struggle to get to where I
[dana_skaggs]: decades long struggle to get to where I am with God. Um. and that I have
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: am with God. Um. and that I have complete peace that God is Is is
[dana_skaggs]: complete peace that God is Is is with me, and this, Um. a little bit of my back
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: with me in this, Um. a little bit of my back story. As I said, I grew
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: up. Um. you know in the seventies and eighties, Um, identifying as as
[dana_skaggs]: storyry, As I said, I grew up. Um, you know in the seventies and eighties, Um,
[dana_skaggs]: identifying as as a boy. Um. That wasn’t something you know that you could do
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: a boy. Um. That wasn’t something you know that you could do Back
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: then. I was a Southern Baptist in Houston, Texas, so it wasn’t you
[dana_skaggs]: Back then. I was a Southern baptist in Houston, Texas, so it wasn’t you know,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: know, necessarily, the most um, liberal of places or or free pre
[dana_skaggs]: necessarily the most um, liberal of places or free free places, and here know
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: places, And you know that was also right when you know the Aids
[dana_skaggs]: that was also right when you know the Aids epidemic was going around, and Um. I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: epidemic was going around, and Um. I also uh, figured out when
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: puberty hit that I was attracted to women. Um, or at that point
[dana_skaggs]: also uh, figured out when she were to hit that I was attracted to women. Um, or
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: girls, Um. My first crush at the age of four was Linnder Carter, As
[dana_skaggs]: at that point girls, Um. My first crush at the age of four was Linder Carter,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Wonder Woman, I just knew that I was going to marry Lender Carter. We
[dana_skaggs]: As Wonder Woman. I just knew that I was going to marry Lender Carter. We were
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: were going to have superpower children and I was going to be the
[dana_skaggs]: going to have superpowed children and I was going to be the daddy. You know, I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: daddy. You know, I was only four years old. You don’t know what
[dana_skaggs]: was four years old. You don’t know what daddy, you know. like the biological
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Daddy, you know, like the biological process of that, but I just knew
[dana_skaggs]: process of that, but I just knew I was going to be the father. Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I was going to be the father. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and so um
[dana_skaggs]: and so um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: y, it is closely following. That
[dana_skaggs]: it’ closely following that was Aaron Gray for Bub Rogers, say um. It was
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: was Aaron Gray from Buck Rogers, you know. I, um. Had, I was
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: obviously a latch. He let K, kid, you know of the seventies and
[dana_skaggs]: obviously a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: eighties, Um, very genex. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: so y, you know, I kind of
[dana_skaggs]: so
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: settled into just being a tomboy, as as a young as a young person.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: And as I said when I hit puberty, Um, just four. You really su set
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: in, Um, And you know a lot of people ask. you know what? what is this
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: for you? What does that feel like? And that’s going to feel like
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: something different for for every person? Um,
[dana_skaggs]: person
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: for me, it feels like an extreme anxiety. Um, that I can’t get away
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: from something that I don’t identify with. I look at my body, And and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that’s not how I see myself. Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: it.
[dana_skaggs]: Ums. Stor windows be
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: it’s like I avoid mirrors. Um. I avoid walking past uh store windows.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Uh, Because the person that I see in that reflection is not how I see
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: myself and it’s incredibly painful.
[dana_skaggs]: inriblyinful
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, So with puberty that really set in a, a secondary sex
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: characteristic started to really develop. I mean, it’s something that
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: has O, had always been there, but it got really bad at that point.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um,
[dana_skaggs]: point
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: but there weren’t words for it back then, so I had no way of of
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: describing that to anybody. So it was you know Leslie was just moody
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: or Leslie was depressed. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: depressed
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and I certainly wasn’t going to tell anybody that I was gay at that
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: point. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: at that point.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know that it just my F. You know my friends talked about, you
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: know, using. uh, you know, fagot this, and like all these horrible
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: words that you know, you would never want to say to somebody and I, I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: just I knew that you know I would be beat up and and stuff like that,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: which did eventually happen when you know when. I.
[dana_skaggs]: Well and yeah, like you’ say in the seventies it, it was like there was not
[dana_skaggs]: language and there was not a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Yeah,
[dana_skaggs]: positive response to that at all. Yeah, soies
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Yeah, so for me that coming of age would have probably been mid to
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: late eighties. Um, but yeah, so so certainly there there. There
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: wasn’t just any. Um, you know it’s we’ve We’ve reclaimed the word
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: ▁queer. at this point, Um, as a community, but you know ▁queer. Was
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know, you know very much a slur back then, Um, and so you know,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I, in high school I was pushed downstairs. I was you know. I. I was
[dana_skaggs]: I, in high school I was pushed downstairs. I was y. you know I. I was just
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: just teased relentlessly. Um. my pastor was doing a sermon series on.
[dana_skaggs]: teased relentlessly. Um, my pastor was doing a sermon series on. On What what
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: On what what we would say? ▁l G is ▁l g, B, T, Uh. Topics Now, back
[dana_skaggs]: we would say? ▁l G is ▁l g, B, T, uh. Topics now, back then it was
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: then it was homosexuality, Um, which is a word that I hate using. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: homosexuality, Um, which is a word that I hate using. Um. but you know I went
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: but you know I went to my passor and I said you. I think that’s me,
[dana_skaggs]: to my passor. I said Yeah, I think that’s me, but I don’t want it to be. I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: but I don’t want it to be. I’d accepted Christ at the age of eight.
[dana_skaggs]: accepted Christ at the age of eight. All my memories were wrapped up in the
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: All of my memories were wrapped up in the church. I was very active
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: in my youth group. I was a leader in my youth group, Um,
[dana_skaggs]: church. I was very active in my youth group. I was a leader in my youth group,
[dana_skaggs]: Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and I was very firmly told that I was no longer welcome in that
[dana_skaggs]: and I was very firmly told that I was no longer welcome in that church.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: church.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, and so you know, had
[dana_skaggs]: Um, and so you know,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: was told that I was an abomination. Think God could never love me,
[dana_skaggs]: had it was told that I was an abomination. The God did never love me. Um, and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, and as anyone you know, we were designed to be in community, So
[dana_skaggs]: as anyone, you know what were designed to be in community, so I, I left the
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I, I left the church community, Um. I. I did get into the Baptist
[dana_skaggs]: church community. Um. I. I did get into the Baptist Su Union for a little while
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: student union for a little while in college to try and reconnect,
[dana_skaggs]: in college to try and reconnect, because I never stopped loving God. I just was
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: because I never stopped loving God. I just was incredibly fearful and
[dana_skaggs]: incredibly fearful and antagonistic towards God’s people at that point because
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: antagonistic towards God’s people at that point because I had been so
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: hurt. Um. But obviously, you Baptist student union in East Texas
[dana_skaggs]: I had been so hurt. Um, but obviously a Baptist student union in East Texas
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: didn’t work out very well for me either. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: didn’t work out very well for me either. Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: so I, I got into theatre. I was a stage manager for Uh, Broadway
[dana_skaggs]: so I, I got into theatre. I was a stage manager for Uh. Broadway tours, A both
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: tours in both the U S. and Europe, and doing that I met Uh, the woman
[dana_skaggs]: the U S. and Europe, and doing that I met Uh, the woman who had become my wife.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: who had become my wife. Um, you know I. I. I found a community where
[dana_skaggs]: Um, you know I. I. I found community where I could find it because Y, the
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I could find it because Y, the church had had told me know in certain
[dana_skaggs]: church had had only me, No, on certain terms that they would not be my
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: terms that they would not be my community anymore. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: community anymore. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: as Sue and I were married for four years, Uh, she had a
[dana_skaggs]: as Soe and I were married for four years, Uh, she had a degeneritative
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: degeneritative neurological disease and
[dana_skaggs]: neurological disease and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um. part of
[dana_skaggs]: Um, part of that disease was that, Uh that she had all kinds of seizures And
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that disease was that, Uh that she had all kinds of seizures And one
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: of those one of the seizures were what’s called my acloonus, which is
[dana_skaggs]: one of those one of the seizures were what’s called my acloonus, which is where
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: where your hands shake. If she hadd gone outside one day to uh to
[dana_skaggs]: your hands shake. If she’d gone outside one day to uh to light her cigarette,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: light her cigarette, And we don’t know exactly what happened. All I
[dana_skaggs]: and we don’t know exactly what happened. All I know is that I heard her
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: know is that I heard her screaming ran out and she was engulfed in
[dana_skaggs]: screaming ran out and she was engulfed in flames. Uh, and so, Uh, she passed
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: flames. Um. and so uh, she passed away. Um, she was thirty five. I
[dana_skaggs]: away. Um, she was thirty five. I was thirty six at the time and butles we’re
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: was thirty six at the time and I was we were living in Massachusetts.
[dana_skaggs]: living in Massachusetts. Um, I was. we had been. She’ been lifelighted to, Um
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, I was we’d been. She’d been lifelighted to, Um to Mass general in
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Boston and I called this church. Um. there was down the street from
[dana_skaggs]: to Mass general in Boston and I called this church. Um. there was down the
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: our house and I said we will you do the funeral like I, I, at thirty
[dana_skaggs]: street from our house and I said, Will you do the funeral like I? I, at thirty
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: five. I mean thirty six years old. You don’t know. you know how to
[dana_skaggs]: five. I mean thirty six years old. You don’t know. you know how to plan the few
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: plan the funeral of your spouse. That’s not something. you know, the
[dana_skaggs]: old your spouse? That’s exactly right.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: two. Even so, Um, you know this pastor answer. I was terrified. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: So, um, you know this pastor answer? I was terrified. Um, to even talk to him
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: to even talk to him and I was like, You know. obviously we’re we’re
[dana_skaggs]: and I was like, You know. Obviously we’re we lesbians. We will you do this And
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: lesbians. We will you do this And he said a phrase that absolutely
[dana_skaggs]: he said a phrase that absolutely changed my life. he said, W. Does, we would be
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: changed my life. he said W. Leslie. We would be honored, too. He
[dana_skaggs]: honored, too. He didn’t stop and say, You know, what are my elders going to
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: didn’t stop and say, You know, what are my elders going to think?
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: What are my top donors? Go to think, Um, when he did the service, he
[dana_skaggs]: think? What are my top donors? Go to think, Um, when he did the service, he he
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: he encouraged people to come around me as a widow, and that whole
[dana_skaggs]: encouraged people to come around me as a widow and that whole church community
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: church community just loved me as someone who had been through
[dana_skaggs]: just loved me as someone who had been through something horrific. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: something horrific. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and I went from hating Christians to thinking. Okay, Maybe I can try
[dana_skaggs]: and I went from hating Christians to thinking. Okay, Maybe I could try this
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: this out, Um, and got involved Um in the worship aspect of it, and
[dana_skaggs]: out, Um, and got involved Um in the worship aspect of it, and was doing sound
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: was doing sound and stuff like that since I hadd done Tch Nicle
[dana_skaggs]: and stuff like that as I donet up theer, um, and and really plugged in Uh, with
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: theatre, Um, and and really plugged in Uh with that church there, Um,
[dana_skaggs]: that church there, Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and after two years was able to completely surrender my gender
[dana_skaggs]: and after two years was able to completely surrender my general identity and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: identity and myexuality to Christ. Um, and now it you know there’s
[dana_skaggs]: myexuality to Christ. Um, and now it you know there’s there has’ been a magic
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: there hasn’t been a magic wand where it’s like all of a sudden, I’m
[dana_skaggs]: wand where it’s like all of a sudden, I’m straight. I like guys. Um, you know
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: straight. I like guys. Um, you know, I don’t know that that’s ever
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: going to happen, Um, but I am at peace with Uh, with celibacy at this
[dana_skaggs]: I, I don’t know that that’s ever going to happen, Um, but I am at peace with
[dana_skaggs]: Uh, with celibacy. At this point, Um, that’s why I feel like God has called me
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: point, Um. that’s what I feel like God has called me too. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: too, Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and I’m as
[dana_skaggs]: and I, as you know, as you said, I, I, an administry I work with with ▁l, g, B,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know, as you said I, I am an a ministry I work with with ▁lgb. T,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: uh, teens, parents, Um, you know we, we have very strict rules from
[dana_skaggs]: T, uh, teens, parents, Um, you know, but we have very strict rules from our
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: our board about about you know being able to work with with underage
[dana_skaggs]: board about about you know being able to work with with underage people. So
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: people, so it’s um. uh. You know. typically they parents are involved
[dana_skaggs]: it’s uh, uh,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: in that Um. but we also train church leaders Top down, Um
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: on on how to better engage people within their church.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, We’re not teaching people to go out to gay baars and proslitize
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: or saying no. there are ▁l g, B, T. people within your church. Here
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: is how you can hold to a traditional sexual ethic and still love
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: people within your congregation. And so we’ve trained about sixty
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: thousand church leaders at this point.
[dana_skaggs]: who was kind of wondering
[dana_skaggs]: you were talking about
[dana_skaggs]: with church,
[dana_skaggs]: helping them understand the needs of the ▁l.
[dana_skaggs]: Iming.
[dana_skaggs]: What are the biggest obstacles
[dana_skaggs]: you into
[dana_skaggs]: to pursue that endeavor?
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I think that the the biggest thing that I’ve noticed is just fear
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: there are so many pastors out there who want to start leading their
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: church in the right direction, Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: or what I would consider the right direction. Um. but they’re afraid
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: of what their congregations will do. Are they’re afraid that their
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: congregations aren’t ready to hear it? Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: There is you know in certain parts of the country. Um, you know they.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I had a pastor say that when they first started having this
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: conversation their elderbard. there are people who didn’t even know
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: what ▁l g b T meant with the With those you know with the acronym
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: meant. Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: So you know before a pastor is going to stand up from a pull pit and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: say something, they have to make sure that their staff and their
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: elder board are behind them and are able to handle the questions that
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: are going to come after that. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: Right?
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: And so it’s it’s It’s a very slow ship to turn. Um. I, I think that’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: been the biggest hindrance.
[dana_skaggs]: well, I’m very thankful for your effort
[dana_skaggs]: representing a a growing group of people that feel more and more
[dana_skaggs]: like you. They’re feeling more more comfortable coming forth and telling their
[dana_skaggs]: story and being authentic and being honest and realizing that there are loving
[dana_skaggs]: people in churches that they don’t have to feel like. Oh, I can’t. I can’t go
[dana_skaggs]: to church. I can’t have a church
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm.
[dana_skaggs]: family because of this thing about
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: right,
[dana_skaggs]: myself,
[dana_skaggs]: and you said something else when you very first were explaining your story. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: the you said that you first knew when you were about
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: yeah,
[dana_skaggs]: four,
[dana_skaggs]: And I think that’s important to to bring up, too, because once in a while I I
[dana_skaggs]: find myself hearing conversations going on about. You know, was someone born
[dana_skaggs]: this way? Did it happen as a result of trauma? And because my field being
[dana_skaggs]: psychotherapy, I end up talking to people that have gone through trauma and
[dana_skaggs]: that type of thing. So sometimes in those conversations those things come up.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm.
[dana_skaggs]: It’s like Okay. Well, is this something that is just in the person, or is it a
[dana_skaggs]: response to something? And do you think those are are Ne, Are like two
[dana_skaggs]: different
[dana_skaggs]: groups of individuals that some people might do that in response to a trauma or
[dana_skaggs]: not You know. Have the gender dis for youa. what are your thoughts on that?
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I’m sure there are people that do have it as as a result of trauma, I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: will say that myself, and we, as a ministry really try not to get
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: into causation. Um, We find we have found that it’s more of a divide
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: than a help.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: You know. If if
[dana_skaggs]: Okay,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: somebody is saying to me, I’ve never had trauma, I’ve never had this.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: There are a few questions that I will ask. Um. But, but typically
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: speaking, I’m going to take somebody’s word until they’re ready. you
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: know to divulge. I can tell you, at four years old, I had not had any
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: drama that I’m aware. unless it’s something that’s like ridiculously
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: suppressed. Um, and most of the people that I know who have gendered
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: foria. That is the case.
[dana_skaggs]: Yeah, that has been my experience as well.
[dana_skaggs]: Hm,
[dana_skaggs]: so
[dana_skaggs]: moving forward in your life, what do you see as? Uh, some potential obstacles,
[dana_skaggs]: Areas of strength that you see as you pursue your masters of divinity, and that
[dana_skaggs]: type of thing.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, Well, some obstacles,
[dana_skaggs]: Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know, I mean it’s I. I think this is true of anyone who is
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: single. I. I, you know, it’s not just particularly in my story, but
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: um, you know there’s the reality that’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I. I’m an only child. I’m not super close to the rest of my family,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: so there’s going to come a time when my mother passes away that I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: have no family.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, And so you know, when I say that I need the church to be my
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: family. it’s not some cute all the family of God. You know, you know,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: singing song kind of thing. it’s like No, I need people who are going
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: to show up in my life. Um, and I, I think a lot of people who don’t
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: have spouses would would say that that it’s you know. this isn’t
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: unique to my journey. Um. I’m very fortunate. Uh, in the church that
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I attend that that I have people that are showing up like that, Uh in
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: my life and have committed to be there. You know, once my mom is
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: gone, Um, Some of the
[dana_skaggs]: Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: advantages you know. it’s um. if somebody calls me and needs help
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: with something, Um, I don’t have to, you know, worry about. Well, are
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I do? I to have to you know, get my kids taken care of, or you know
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I, is there something I’m supposed to be doing with my spouse? Um, if
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I need if I want to pick up and go serve. I pick up and I go serve.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: You know, there’s there’s nothing in the way of that and there’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: there’s absolutely a freedom in that. Um, it was you know I share
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: with you that I was recording another podcast. Uh, yesterday, and uh,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: one of the things that we were talking about. Um, is that when you
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: are um celebate for any reason, Um, that’s something that you have to
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: daately lay down at God’s feet. It’s it’s an anchor chain for me. Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and so it’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I. I’m kind of thankful for it in a way, Um, because I know that I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: can’t go too long without without figuratively, if not literally
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: being on my knees before the cross, and and giving up, you know, and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and re surrendering this. Um, you know because it’s there’s and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: there’s also a different journey for people who have who have been in
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: relationship and have decided. this is how I’m going to live the rest
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: of my life and people who younger people said No. this is just how
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I’m going to live my life. Um, they have a particular journey. My
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: journey is that I know what I’m missing out on. Um, you know, I know
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: what it’s like to have that person to make all the decisions with.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: And um, you know it’s it’s It’s tough not having that person to make
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: life decisions with that. every life decision you make is is made on
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: your own. and um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: so yeah, but but there is absolutely freedom and joy outside of that.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: That’s you know. that I can go and do whatever you know. I’m I’m not
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: behold into somebody.
[dana_skaggs]: you know, I really like the way you’re explaining all of this and you, you seem
[dana_skaggs]: to really respect each individual person’s journey,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you have to.
[dana_skaggs]: which is something that I re repeat a lot on my podcast is, And that’s one of
[dana_skaggs]: the reasons why I wanted to do. You’re not alone, interview series, and and
[dana_skaggs]: really reach out to people who have experienced. You know different levels of
[dana_skaggs]: diversity and things in their life, so that people have a chance to hear and
[dana_skaggs]: understand what it’s like to walk in different people’s shoes. So we, that
[dana_skaggs]: we’re less judgmental, We less
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm.
[dana_skaggs]: critical where we. we allow someone else to be in their lane. We allow someone
[dana_skaggs]: else to walk their path and honor them walking their path, and and and and not
[dana_skaggs]: be critical and and judgmental in
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Yeah,
[dana_skaggs]: that way.
[dana_skaggs]: Do you feel like that there’s people you’ve run into Um, even in the the ▁l g B
[dana_skaggs]: T community that are Um. critical, or you know, don’t really respond
[dana_skaggs]: particularly positively to your choice of celibacy.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: absolutely, um. it’s you know I, I’m a heretic to um, ▁ter, um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Fundamental Christians, and I am a trader to
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know, to what’s considered a sit, A ▁l G, B. T person, Um, it’s a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: very, Um, kind of fine line of people that I can relate to within the
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: ▁l Gb. C community, Um, especially because I was such an activist
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: prior to coming coming back to Christ. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: be I, I’ve been told that I’m dishonoring my wife’s memory, that I’m
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: a traitor to her memory. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: there are entire
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: their entire, uh, like blogs about from both uh, conservatives and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: liberals about uh, how horrible I am. Like naming me specifically,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Uh, just because uh, there’s a a fairly well known theologian who
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: uses my story and has used it in in three of his books.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: And so it might my stories out there. My name is out there. Um. And
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: so there’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: There’s no lack of uh. criticism of me. Unfortunately,
[dana_skaggs]: Oh, and that, just that’s so frustrating. But you know what I’m I’m kind of
[dana_skaggs]: glad you brought that up. Because really, for any of us, if we’re going to be
[dana_skaggs]: walking a path of authenticity, if we are going to tell our story, there are
[dana_skaggs]: going to be people out there that don’t like it, and that that respond in a
[dana_skaggs]: very vitrialic negative way. And what are we going to do? Are we going to say
[dana_skaggs]: Okay, Because there are are going to be people out there that are going to
[dana_skaggs]: respond that way. Am I not going to share my story? Am I just going to stay
[dana_skaggs]: silent because I don’t want someone to respond to me in a hateful way, or am I
[dana_skaggs]: going to be true to myself? Am I going to be authentic? Am I going to tell my
[dana_skaggs]: story,
[dana_skaggs]: And
[dana_skaggs]: as uh, Taylor Swift is known to say, let the
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm,
[dana_skaggs]: haters hate. The haters are going to hate and just be thankful for the people
[dana_skaggs]: that you are reaching that are so glad to hear what you have to say and that
[dana_skaggs]: are maybe walking uh your path. But earlier, maybe they’re
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: yeah,
[dana_skaggs]: younger now and they’re hearing you even now on this podcast and they’re
[dana_skaggs]: hearing you tell your story and thinking, Wow, that’s she was. I’m I’m her.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: yeah,
[dana_skaggs]: I, I’m there. Okay, I’m I’m
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that’s okay.
[dana_skaggs]: sorry about that. I’m I’m still learning.
[dana_skaggs]: So do you see what I’m trying to say? It’s like what are you going to do when
[dana_skaggs]: people are going to? I’m going to hate.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Yeah, yeah. So so a couple of things that, Um, you know, I, I, I’ve
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: when I, when my story kind of went public, And and there are a couple
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: of videos out there and stuff, And like I said these books, Um, when
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that happened, Um, I had to do like a, a very uh, serious. sit down
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: like with God and I,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: And and and I just had to come to the conclusion that Okay, I am
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: doing this for Christ. Christ went to the cross for me. I can handle
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: a blog.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: You know, um,
[dana_skaggs]: Oh, okay,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: y, you know it’s this is all for the sake of the kingdom. You know,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know Paules, that we should be all things for all people that
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: some may come, right, Uh to the gospel. Um. it’ll be wonderful if it
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: said that all may come. But we’re doing this for some. Um. They hated
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Jesus if they’re not, If there aren’t people hating me, I don’t think
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I’m doing it right. Um, I’m not loving radically enough. Um, so yeah
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that. that’s just kind of where I’ve had to land on that.
[dana_skaggs]: I love that point and I guess one of the last things I’ll say, Um, and then you
[dana_skaggs]: know, give you some time if you have any less comments or questions or anything
[dana_skaggs]: like that. It’s
[dana_skaggs]: I really like the idea of family like you
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm.
[dana_skaggs]: were saying earlier, church, family, and that’s one of the things that I’ve
[dana_skaggs]: been kind of pushing for with with my podcast, With my interview series is
[dana_skaggs]: helping us to just reach out
[dana_skaggs]: and and just be family
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm,
[dana_skaggs]: to each other. Stop asking all these questions of what this, and what that, and
[dana_skaggs]: how come you’re not this just allowing each person to be their authentic self
[dana_skaggs]: and be their family, love them, be there for them. And instead of pushing
[dana_skaggs]: someone aside because they’re different,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: yeah, um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know it’s It’s funny like one of the when, when someone when I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: say that or when someone to someone else. I’ve heard someone say
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that. there’s always the people that say. Well, what about truth like
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: That’s all grace. What about the truth in it? Um, you know and it’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: I, We. We do need to be family. we’ve um, we’ve lost sight of that. I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: think in our culture we’ve um, we’ve we. We almost idolize the
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: nuclear family. Not almost we do idolize the nuclear family. And so
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know people
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: people like me are are kind of struggling to try and find a way to
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: fit in. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: but um, sorry, I just totally lost my train of thoughts. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: Well, well, you’re getting that that’s okaycause. I have a comment about what
[dana_skaggs]: you just said is about the definition of family, The nuclear family, Because I
[dana_skaggs]: think if if we, if we broaden our understanding, and what does family
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm,
[dana_skaggs]: mean? and I, and kind of a funny way I think of that show friends,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: yeah,
[dana_skaggs]: you know, they, they went to to New York or whatever, And and they, they became
[dana_skaggs]: a family. They, none of them will, too, we biologically
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm,
[dana_skaggs]: related, but the rest of them they were not biologically related, And yet they
[dana_skaggs]: went and they came together and they became a family,
[dana_skaggs]: And I think it’s really a good idea for us to kind of step back and broaden our
[dana_skaggs]: view of what does family mean?
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm,
[dana_skaggs]: And and can’t we like, open our circle. And just if, just ask ourselves if we
[dana_skaggs]: did react to this person or that person as if they were family, how would that
[dana_skaggs]: change how we respond to them
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Yeah, there’s a great book by West Hill. Um
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: calls, Oh not washing, waiting, spiritual friendship, Um, and it’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: about covenant, friendships, Uh with within, Uh in, you know, within
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: the body of Christ, and it’s Um. He has. he’s Um. he’s a professor at
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Oh goness, I know the I should know this, but anyway he’s a Ph. H. D,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: professor, also a minister and he has a family that he has a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: covenant. Reallyl ship
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: with that. like if they move, they’re going to talk about it. like
[dana_skaggs]: as a covenant relationship with that like if they move, they’re going to talk
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: together. Um, and it’s um. It’s It’s just beautiful that they’ve you
[dana_skaggs]: about it like together. Um.
[dana_skaggs]: And it’s um. it. It’s just beautiful that they’ve you know, kind of included
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: know, kind of included him in. And and I have that kind of
[dana_skaggs]: him in. And and I have that kind of relationship here with with. Um, you know
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: relationship here with it with. Um. you know with a couple of
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: families, which is is just incredible. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: with a couple of families, which is is just incredible. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: but it’s I, I will say, like in the church that I was involved in
[dana_skaggs]: but it’s I, I will say, like in the church of I was involved in Massachusetts.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Massachusetts. That wasn’t necessarily the case. There were times
[dana_skaggs]: That wasn’t necessarily the case. There were times when Um. you know I was
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: when Um, you know I was active in the church on Wednesdays and
[dana_skaggs]: active in the church on Wednesdays and Sundays, but there would go. There would
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Sundays, but there would go. There would be days when I like,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: literally wouldn’t speak to anyone. Um, you know, just because there
[dana_skaggs]: be days when I like Littles, wouldn’t speak to anyone. Um, you know, just
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: was you know, I was living in a you know at that point of condo by
[dana_skaggs]: because it was you know I was living in, you know, at that point the condo by
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: myself, Um
[dana_skaggs]: myself, Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that that has not happened here. you know. there’s there’s always
[dana_skaggs]: that that has not happened here. you know. There’s there’s always somebody you
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: somebody you know goofing around texting, joking, um, texting or
[dana_skaggs]: know goofing around texting, joking, um, texting or whatever, Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: whatever, Um
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and I, I, I don’t know how I would, I, how I would be survive. I
[dana_skaggs]: and I, I. I don’t know how I would. I. how I would be sur much. I would go back
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: would go back to surviving and not thriving. I feel like I’m able to
[dana_skaggs]: to surviving and not thriving. I feel like I’m able to thrive now because I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: thrive now because I have that. Um, you know, I think when you’re
[dana_skaggs]: have that. Um, you know, I think when you’re talking about, First of all, I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: talking about, first of all, I hate the words cebacy like there’s no
[dana_skaggs]: hate the words. celibacy, Think there’s no other word to describe it, but I
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: other word to describe it. But I hate it. I, I just I just don’t like
[dana_skaggs]: hate it. Ij, I just I just don’t like it. I don’t know why. Um, but you know
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: it. I don’t know why. Um, but you know there’s there are three types
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: of intimacy that I have found. there’s physical, spiritual and
[dana_skaggs]: there’s there are three types of intimacy that I have found there’s physical,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: emotional. I can do without one of those three,
[dana_skaggs]: spiritual and emotional. I can do without one of those three.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: so without messing up, Um. Then when when I say mesing up, it’s like
[dana_skaggs]: So without messing up, Um, then when when they say messing up, it’s like going
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: going in to sent either emotionally spiritually or physically. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: to sent either emotionally spiritually or physically. Um.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: So if physical is already taken away, I have to have the church be my
[dana_skaggs]: So if physical has already taken away, I have to have the church be my
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: emotional and spiritual, um relationship. Which means that there has
[dana_skaggs]: emotional and spiritual, um. relationship. which means that there has to be
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: to be people that you know that when you think about like how you,
[dana_skaggs]: people that you know that When you think about like how you, you know what you,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you know what your what it’s like with your spouse at. there are
[dana_skaggs]: what it iss like with your spouse At. there are times that you’re just
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: times that you’re just completely raw and you make no sense and
[dana_skaggs]: completely raw and you make no sense and you’re just emotional and stupid. Yes,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: you’re just emotional and stupid. But they’re your spouse and they
[dana_skaggs]: but they’re your spouse and they know you that well, and they. they let you do
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: know you that well, and they, they let you do that
[dana_skaggs]: that
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: as a single person.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: It’s really hard to find that in a relationship, Um, and so having
[dana_skaggs]: as a single person. It’s really hard to find that in a relationship. Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: the church be able to be there and and really step up in that way, Um
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: has has taken me from surviving to thriving.
[dana_skaggs]: that is wonderful and
[dana_skaggs]: one last question for you. Um, If there are
[dana_skaggs]: people out there in Uh, the Phoenix inflame listening audience that are in
[dana_skaggs]: churches and there may be in various positions of authority or church members,
[dana_skaggs]: or whatever the case may be, And they’re listening to you and they’re listening
[dana_skaggs]: to your story
[dana_skaggs]: and they want to be a agent of change.
[dana_skaggs]: They want to do something
[dana_skaggs]: Uh, proactive. They want to do something to help. They want to do something.
[dana_skaggs]: Um. they want to be part of the solution.
[dana_skaggs]: What would you suggest to them? What possible
[dana_skaggs]: words of wisdom? Pieces of advice that you might have for them, as they are out
[dana_skaggs]: there in their various churches, may be surrounded by people that aren’t
[dana_skaggs]: particularly
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Mhm.
[dana_skaggs]: receptive to this message. or you know, Uh, individuals walking that particular
[dana_skaggs]: uh line. So, um, what would you say? What would your suggestions be
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Um, you know, I would say, go to posture shift dot com. Um, look at
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: our resources. We have. Guiding families is an amazing book. Um. It’s
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: we’ve had
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: par parent child relationships be completely turned upside down in a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: matter of hours and repaired by by parents. Reading this book, Um,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: for church leaders, we have all kinds of training that go from one
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: hour to a four hour digital training You can do to a two day digital
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: train to a two day training where we you come out and train uh people
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: in their churches, But we take on this conversation myologically. You
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: know, and if you, if you, we think about when you go on a mission
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: trip, or you know, or when you’re preparing permissions, you look at
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: people’s language, you look at their culture, you look at their
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: history,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: And and that’s what we do. And then once that has been established,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: and there’s a common language and a common understanding of Okay,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: when we say this, An ▁l g, B, T person hears this and heres why? So
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: it’s not just saying, change your language, because it’s change our
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: language. And this is why. And and so you have A. They have a much
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: deeper understanding of why. So they? they’re better equipped to go
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: before their congregations, or you know, whatever that may be, We
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: also help uh, create inclusion models and things like that. Um, but
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: that’s all part of like our two day posture shift intensive. Um, and
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: it’s all all of that’s it, posture shift, dot com and uh, or info
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: aposture shift uhosture shift dot com. You know, requesting a
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: proposal or something, we’d be able to help out that way,
[dana_skaggs]: Okay? That is wonderful, and I will put posture shift dot com in my show notes.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: Greatful.
[dana_skaggs]: for Uh, when I put the The podcast when I launch it out on Itunes and and other
[dana_skaggs]: all the other destinations that he goes to, But I will put in the show note so
[dana_skaggs]: that people will have that and can easily get to it and and find that
[dana_skaggs]: information,
[dana_skaggs]: Leslie. I appreciate you so much for tolerating my craziness this morning. That
[dana_skaggs]: has to be said again,
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: it is not that bad
[dana_skaggs]: and my technical ineptitude, and and your grace and that, and your willingness
[dana_skaggs]: to hang in there, and G. literally she went. They went to another location to
[dana_skaggs]: help me do this interview. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: and I, I’m just I appreciate that so much.
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: pleasure
[dana_skaggs]: Um,
[dana_skaggs]: All right, Well,
[dana_skaggs]: if this message has touched
[dana_skaggs]: you in any kind of way if you have related to Leslie’s story.
[dana_skaggs]: If you know of someone who might be walking a journey that sounds similar to
[dana_skaggs]: Lesliy’s, I would
[dana_skaggs]: ask that you would
[dana_skaggs]: post the podcast on your social media platforms, whatever your favorite ones
[dana_skaggs]: are, whether they be Facebook, Instagram, Twitter that you would share Leslie’s
[dana_skaggs]: message so that we can reach people that could possibly benefit from maybe
[dana_skaggs]: going to posture shift, dot com, Uh, or their family members that could do that
[dana_skaggs]: as well to relieve some suffering, and to pull together, Um, and also to grow
[dana_skaggs]: our Phoenix in flamme community, which we reach out to one. Another we learn
[dana_skaggs]: from each other, we accept each other. Um,
[dana_skaggs]: So I, I thank you for joining us today, and I hope the rest of your day goes
[lesli_hudson_reynolds]: eight.
[dana_skaggs]: wonderfully. This is Dana on Phoenix in flame.